Why Should I Worship Jeezus(tm) And Not Odin?

[mwc]

He won't convince the world even when he returns WITH AN ARMY OF ANGELS! What's up with this guy? Satan says boo and everyone's on board but jesus can't convince anyone of anything.

 

Your are very wrong about this. Sadly, since you dont believe me you'll just have to wait and see.

I am? Did they rewrite the ending when I wasn't looking?

 

Let's see. There's a whole bunch of stuff about dragons and beasts and armies and all. People worshipping things that aren't jesus. Bunch of things being cast into a lake of fire. Yep. Looks like not everything was convinced even with a whole army of angels at his side (otherwise the whole battle between good and evil wouldn't be fought...and it's pointless and stupid anyway...an obvious literary device...no battle is needed when the outcome is already decided...the battle is therefore only for the reader just see the vanquishing of the mighty dragon to see what happens when you can't think of anything to write and the outcome is known). So no matter which method jesus chooses he simply can't convince the majority of the people to side up with him. It's probably because they weren't chosen to choose him...or do you go by another doctrine? There's just so darn many:

• Say the right things.
  
• Do the right things.
  
• Believe the right things.
  
• Do and believe the right things.
  
• Believe in Jesus.
  
• Be born again.
  
• Hear the words of Jesus and believe in whoever sent him.
  
• Be born of water and the spirit.
  
• Be washed by the Holy Ghost.
  
• Believe and be baptized.
  
• Call upon the name of the Lord.
  
• Confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
  
• Follow the commandments (at least some of them).
  
• Keep the commandments and the faith of Jesus.
  
• Endure to the end.
  
• Wait until you die and then get baptized.
  
• Don't judge other people.
  
• Have lots of babies.
  
• Be given by the Father and come to the Son.
  
• Be chosen (predestinated) by God.
  
• Be poor, not rich.
  
• Just ask.
  
• All you need is love.
  

List borrowed from http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/saved.html (see site for biblical references)

 

MCW I have considered that all of you already have known these things. You asked me a question and I answered. It's clear you have already made up your mind so there's nothing I can do to change it.

Was it the T-shirt remark? The whole thing where I was a little insensitive to jesus' feelings? Did I not cry enough? I'll try harder. I really want jesus in my life. Now on other threads I hear he's a homo (in his heart at least and from the Secret Gospel of Mark other places as well...and a pedophile) but I'm not afraid (not if what you're saying about him being a tender lover is true). That just means you'll have to put my picture in place of yours in those drawings. Can you make a quick picture of a generic me and jesus in one of those tender, about to kiss moments, and put that in your sig for all of us? That would mean the world to me Amy. It might just open my eyes. I just know that if I can see myself in your position, the damsel in distress, it will give me a whole new perspective. I mean, fuck my experience. It meant shit. I want to know what it's like to be Amy and feel things how Amy feels them. I want to stand in the rain and stare at stained glass feeling the love of jesus and not feel the cold sweat roll off me in a dark room in silence as my final prayer to feel even the remotest twinge of anything called "faith" goes unanswered (despite the promise to leave the flock and save that lost lamb and all the other similar shit that are promises and entitlements to believers but you're called an asshole if you ever "collect" on said items, one fucking time in 30 god damned years, because how dare you ask god for anything you lowly fuck he died for you after all). If your feelings are "proof" of jesus and god's "love" then my feelings are "proof" of the opposite. Get it? I didn't make up my mind. God did. A promise was made. A promise wasn't kept. I've left the flock. God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit can all suck my ass. I've blasphemed them all to ensure my safe (un)return according to the book. There's no telling me "maybe you'll go back later." Nope. Not even by accident. I've burned my bridges. Good riddance. But I do want my "hot me on jesus action" drawing. It might inspire others.

 

mwc

 

P.S. And get my name right. I get your three letters in the right order.

[nick5]

Sorry amy, we don't want anything to do with a guy who tortures little babies.

[Asuryan]

Amy, where's my answer? I'm still waiting here.

 

Waiting waiting waiting...

 

I know it is a long post, but I at least want to see you TRY to answer it honestly and sincerely, this time, without covering behind your fears.

 

 

 

However, do you have MPD? Are you schizophrenic? How do....:

 

Amy_marie> Huggies and flowers and a lot of good cake to everyone!

 

And

 

Amy_marie> Yeah I'm dodging you. Oh the terror! (evident sarcasm and sneering noted)

And

 

Amy_marie> I am sorry about your name MWC. That's why I hate that I don't have the edit feature.

Words from me aren't going to mean anything to you. So I just sit in silence wishing you actually knew me

 

 

 

Get along?

 

Your tone changes very suddenly, as well as your answers' lenght, and your answers' number of mistakes (both spelling and grammar). Plus you say the same thing twice (i.e. "crucifiction was the worst torture possible, the most painful of them all, and he suffered as no one else in the whole history of the world" with the subsequent Scaphism subthread)...

 

This is why someone believes you could be a troll, or lending your keyboard to your personal priest friend every now and then.

 

 

 

However, what part of "You are not answering the questions we pose to you" can't you understand?

If we ASK: 2+2 = ? You should at least answer mathematically, no matter if you answer 3, 4, or 5. You SHOULDN'T answer "the mad hatter" when we ask 2 + 2!

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Asuryan]

Don't feel too bad, she never bothers to respond to much of what I say, either.

 

Is it because there's no response?

 

 

 

 

Ah, I don't feel bad about her ignoring me. But I do want her answer.

 

 

 

So here's the deal, amy marie: for each day, from now on, until you answer my questions, I'll deliberately sin (lie? steal? Having homosexual sex? coveting someone else's mate and things? Worshipping idols? Eating *shudder* SHRIMPS?? Cutting my hair thus offending angels??? You can choose if you want!) and blaspheme your god. Maybe a beggar will ask me for some Euros, and I'll just tell him "No, just go lay down somewhere and die". Maybe I'll burn some wood christcrosses in my backyard (as my sister plans to do as soon as she's done with her high school exam)...When you'll answer me properly, I'll just stop my sinning spree. What do you think about it? Would that be OK?

 

 

Asuryan deserves her response, amy - a proper one.

 

 

 

We all do. A real answer... not preaching... using some logic... eh, I'd try to repeat her my 2+2 example, but I'm starting to doubt that she's really able to do such a simple operation without counting on her fingers...

[Asuryan]

I give up. I could answer your questions until the second coming and you would still come up with more arguments.

 

 

This is true. I have a lot of questions, so after those ones, I'll ask you new ones. What's wrong with that? It is important to have questions, how does one learn otherwise? Simply assimilating others' words as if they were *true* doesn't seem an intelligent way to learn to me.

 

 

 

Your argument is with Jesus. I'm too stupid to even count on my own fingers, so why even bother asking this retard? You should ask someone on your own intellectual level and this entire discussion might be more satisfying.

 

 

 

But I asked you.

 

And you cannot really give up, you know?

 

Sadly for you... what does your gospel say about complying with requests?

 

"Ask... and you shall be given".

 

And if I slap you on the cheek, you should turn the other one.

 

I'm asking you to answer my question. You have, as per your faith, to give me answers. If asked, you shall give. And this surely won't make you poorer, as giving me your cloak would do.

[nick5]

Less emotional BS, more proof please

[mwc]

I am sorry about your name MWC. That's why I hate that I don't have the edit feature.

I believe you were told how to get it. Did you put in the effort? I guess not. It didn't matter enough to you.

 

Words from me aren't going to mean anything to you. So I just sit in silence wishing you actually knew me, not that you would even want to. But it is all words because we are miles apart. No matter what I say you will read it as insincere bull.

Your words are empty. It's all about getting to know you. You've made no effort to know or understand anyone else's position. You don't know and don't care to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes." You have no ability to empathize with anyone and you don't want to but you want the opposite. I'm not moved by someone who just wants to take or don't you get that yet? The thing is I DO know your type Amy and your reactions to me, and others, prove that. The real question is do YOU know you? Your "love" for jesus is there to cover that huge empty hole inside you. You know, the one where "Amy" should be. Keep trying. Maybe some day it will work like you hope and all the things you keep telling everyone you feel -- you'll actually feel. Good luck.

 

mwc

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Checkmate]

I give up. I could answer your questions until the second coming and you would still come up with more arguments. Your argument is with Jesus. I'm too stupid to even count on my own fingers, so why even bother asking this retard? You should ask someone on your own intellectual level and this entire discussion might be more satisfying.

I heartily agree!

 

So...this begs the question, Amy...WHY did you come to this site and pick this fight with us? If you knew you were outclassed, ("too stupid") then why take up this gauntlet? If your poems and god's Holy Spook aren't enough to silence the heathens, then why bother? I'm tired of being jerked around by no-nothing, emotional cripples for Christ.

 

(I'm being deliberately nice to you in here, since I respect the Colossseum, and not YOU. For my REAL thoughts and feelings about you and your outclassed ilk, go to the "Lion's Den" here where I rip "istillbelieve" a new one. Shameless plug. )

[Ouroboros]

I give up. I could answer your questions until the second coming and you would still come up with more arguments.

True. You see, many Christians argue that Evolution and Science is false because it can't exlain everything yet, so they have this little "God of the gaps" thing going. i.e. Science can't explain XYZ, then God made/making XYZ.

 

We have our own little version: The NoGod of the gaps of religion.

 

You see, wherever we can find a hole in your religion, that means there's no God there.

 

So we have similarities in behavior, but one huge difference between science and religion in this comparison is: Science is covering up the holes on an increasing speed. It has been able to explain many and large things just under a few hundred years. And more things are explained all the time. While religion, the holes grow and increase over the years, and religion has been around for thousands of years. Shouldn't religion have every little question worked out by now? It only had 10,000 years to figure it out?

 

Isn't it amazing that science managed to explain lightning, hurricanes, earthquakes, sunspots, the heliocentric system, gravity, quantum physics, and much more in about 3-400 years? While religion insisted God was doing all these things, and even refuted to believe Earth revolved around the sun, for thousands of years!

 

If it was a race with two horses. The first horse started and have been running for a very long time, and the second just got born and started from the starting line and are going in ultrasonic speed, swoshing past the old one.

 

 

Your argument is with Jesus. I'm too stupid to even count on my own fingers, so why even bother asking this retard? You should ask someone on your own intellectual level and this entire discussion might be more satisfying.

Well, you did come here to ask and understand us. And part of understanding is to ask yourself the hard questions. Since you refuse to ask these questions, then we're asking them for you, but you keep on resisting to even think about them. I guess you can never understand us.

 

However they too might have the answers you just don't want to hear.

Doubt it. We've had a few clever guys on here, but one common thread about them all, they only go so far. They claim, just like you, to read the Bible literally, but we always find places in the Bible they refuse to read literally, and only read allegorical or illustratively. There's no concistence.

 

I never got an answer from you about Mat 16:19 or Isa 53:5. You never told me which parts of it you interpreted literally and which part you interpreted figuratively. And no explanaition to why. Very disappointing.

 

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy!

I'm afraid religion, ignorance and religious intolerance is the largest threat to our existence today. We really do need mercy, but it can only come from the fundamentalists to grow up and start thinking. They need to start using their brains "God" gave them. Or they will start more wars to prove their God is the greatest. God save us from the religious fundamentalists.

[Ouroboros]

I you were a layer, you probably would understand how fragile and tiny the evidence or argument is for Jesus. There's more evidence pointing to a Jesus connected to astrology, paganism and influences from old religions like Mithraism, Buddhism, Egyptian, Zoroastrianism ... and more, than Jesus being something unique.

 

For each one "proof" you bring up, there are multitudes of counter proofs.

 

Maybe you know have realized that to witness and convert someone that doesn't know anything about Christianity is easy, but close to impossible to do to someone that have been in the herd and the cult almost their whole life. Because if one has been in the cult, then they know that questions and the answers on both sides; they also know the conflicts and contradictions that flourish in it.

 

--edit--

 

Amy, since you liked Job so much, please read this segment from Job 38:

31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

 

Do you know what it is? It's astrology, and God asks if Job can stop the influence the Pleiades have. Mazzaroth means Zodiac. The 12 signs and the 36 associated signs.

 

Why does the oldest book in the Bible make references to the evil astrology?

 

Can you see a connection with 12 tribes, 12 disciples with 12 star signs? Where one of the tribes symbol (Judah) is a Lion (Leo).

 

Can you see a connection with 2 fishes (Pisces)

 

Can you see the connection of a star showing the wise men (Magi) to Jesus? They followed the signs of the heaven.

 

There's a tremendous amount of symbols and correlations between Christianity and Astrology.

[nick5]

I see someone has been watching the naked truth

Amy, you should watch it, too.

[mwc]

I admit that I thought I could take on your reasons for not worshipping Jesus so now I will eat my humble pie. You are a very intelligent group of people and I see clearly I was haughty and thinking "notta a problem."

 

I tried to defend Him but my defense was not to your liking.

Oh no, no, no. This is not humble pie at all. Admit defeat Amy. Admit you had no defense. All you've done here is admit your "defense" was "not to our liking." Which sounds like you're trying to say you had a defense but we didn't go for it (probably because we're close minded) or you didn't present it quite right. Nope. Not gonna buy it (although that smoke you're blowin' up my ass tickles).

 

The problem is no one wanted a defense. They wanted honest answers. You're the one who needed to mount a defense. You could see the logical conclusion to the questions and had to resort to the tactics you did to reach the conclusions you wanted reached. You're not stupid you're dishonest. There's a world of difference. When you can learn to look at these topics without resorting to trickery and double-talk come back because there are a lot of people here that are willing to have that conversation with you.

 

mwc

[Ouroboros]

I see someone has been watching the naked truth

Amy, you should watch it, too.

Actually I have heard and figured out some of it before. But I'm watching it piece by piece right now, and got reminded.

 

The 12 tribes, 12 discples, Leo etc, that I figured out on my own. Actually I saw that connection while Christian, and it bothered me a bit. Why would God make any connection to stellar phenomenon, like the start pointing the way to Jesus? And the magi that interpreted the star, must have been astrologists. Why would God use any of this evil and sinful profession come and validate Jesus to be son of God? I never understood that as a Christian, it bothered the heck out of me, but now I do understand it.

 

The 2 fishes, age of the pisces and age of aquarius, I learned on this site the last year. Mythra and MrGrinch and many more helped me see those things.

 

The Job reference was new to me. I got that one from the film. That movie is a must see, even if it is boring, and even contain some errors, I think most of it is fairly correct. There are correlations and commonalities that can't be overlooked.

 

I love this site!

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Ouroboros]

I'm afraid religion, ignorance and religious intolerance is the largest threat to our existence today. We really do need mercy, but it can only come from the fundamentalists to grow up and start thinking. They need to start using their brains "God" gave them. Or they will start more wars to prove their God is the greatest. God save us from the religious fundamentalists.

 

WTF? You keep mentioning "religion" as being a problem. How is "religion" a problem? Of course, it isn't, since there are many healthy religions in the world that don't ascribe to any of the harmful shit that the Abrahamic cults do.

 

I know you're referring to Xianity when you say "religion" but could you actually be specific? It wouldn't be very nice of me to call all Black people "niggers" because of the Bloods and Crips, who are all Black, right? Or hate all Whites because of the KKK? Well, try to remember there are religious folks here who don't appreciate being lumped in with the Abrahamic cults - like myself. MotherFUCK, already

Okay! Sorry! I forgot, and didn't want to hurt your belief. I should have been specific and said fundamentalistic and dogmatic religions, which I usually mean when I say religion. Sorry again!

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Ouroboros]

You know Varghjärta (you can guess what it means , in old Swedish it would have been Warg hjaerta), I don't like it when people generalize either, and I usually crack down on it myself. But I know I do it myself without thinking about it. We all do. In the heat of the moment we simplify our expression and they come out wrong. Sorry bud.

 

If we ever meet, the beer is on me.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Ouroboros]

Correct. Varghjärta/Warghjaerta means Wolfs Heart.

[mwc]

The title of the thread was "Why I should worship Jesus instead of Odin." I answered.

Actually, you never really did and that's a central issue. People want to know why jesus over Odin. They asked questions and sometimes got answers that maybe were possibly related sometimes, sort of...possibly...if you felt like it. Also, the thread wasn't why should "AMY" worship Odin instead of jesus. Go back and start again. You were supposed to be convincing the OP why jesus was better than Odin. He gave reasons why Odin was superior. He also gave reasons why jesus was evil. The thing is you overlooked those. You showed why jesus is good. Okay. Accepted. But to only see the good and ignore the evil lands you right where you are now. Either resolve the bad/evil junk and those contradictions or concede because jesus isn't all good like you keep trying to convince everyone he is. The more you avoid this *fact* the more we'll pile on. Also, don't forget, since jesus literally is supposed to be god too, he is responsible for the sins of the father. So all that crap in the OT that daddy did, like drowning babies...he did too. So we can call him on it all. Not just some "cute" sayings in a few books.

 

I admitted that I wasn't as imtelligent as you.

Good for you. When did I make this request and why is it important to this discussion?

 

But do you think you're going to get me to renounce my faith and believe Jesus is an evil Being?

Only you can decide between your integrity and your faith.

 

Am I now to admit that Christ is just a myth?

That's your choice. Not everyone accepts this. Actually, I would say most people accept this but many people think there was a jesus of some sort.

 

That's just not going to happen.

Ahhh...now who's being closed minded. What'd you say in the other thread about leading a horse to water and all?

 

I guess the converstion should end.

It never really started. I guess you could always start yet another thread.

 

mwc

[Golden Meadows]

Based purely on attributes there seems to be no contest - Varokhar's description of his God is far more appealing than the bible God. Come what may everyone has to make a leap of faith in this world with regard to belief in god(s) and attributes must come first with me. If a god is described as doing things which are very evil then I don't want to worship that god.

[Lycorth]

^..^

[Golden Meadows]

"Yes - Odin's attributes are superior to Jeezus™. Jeezus™ and Yahooweh™ and the Holy Spurt™ are said to be one and the same being. Therefore, Jeezus™ is the same god who drowned people and animals in the Flood, who incinerated living humans in Sodom and Gomorrah, drowned the Pharoah's soldiers in the Red Sea, permitted Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter, and admits to having created both good and evil. Odin cannot be ascribed any of this, so you know what that means..."

 

A working sense of what is right and wrong is something everyone has and I believe its God given even its mediated through mutual survival instincts. To go against that is to do evil. A xtian has to reconcile what cannot be reconciled - the bible God of love actually works evil. To do this involves a form of death, a kind of spiritual suicide if followed right through to the end. I have never yet met a xtian apologist who could stand up against the arguments of hell as an evil doctrine - they all at some point lapse into silence.

 

Is this the ultimate rejection of God? The God who gives us a sense of right and wrong, and what do xtians do with it - bury it.? The reality is its not just xtians but Muslims and Jews as well, accepting though that Jews don't have the ulimate blasphmeny of hell.

 

I would ask xtians and muslims to imagine that they are dead and have gone to meet the true God - what excuse will they have for their teaching that God is evil even though they shout the "Lord" this and "Lord" that "how good your are". How will they justify themselves when they knew deep down (as witnessed by their silence) that what spoke they knew was very evil?