Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 25, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2012 I could feel my blood boiling more and more with each sentence of that letter. You are being abused. Your father is an abuser. If my husband EVER took such action against my children whether they were 15 or 25.......well, I won't finish the sentence..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'd be tempted to send a letter of resignation via registered mail to the church, with a "Do not contact me via any medium, including third parties. I have retained the law firm of __________ to pursue legal action against the church if I am harassed in any manner whatsoever." Obtain Legal Aid and CC your lawyer. If you actually do go to the meeting (but I strongly advise against it), go with legal counsel or anyone you can trust... And a video or audio recording device. Make it clear from the outset that the meeting will only go forward if they agree to let you record the whole thing. If they say no recording, shrug and walk out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'd be tempted to send a letter of resignation via registered mail to the church, with a "Do not contact me via any medium, including third parties. I have retained the law firm of __________ to pursue legal action against the church if I am harassed in any manner whatsoever." Obtain Legal Aid and CC your lawyer. If you actually do go to the meeting (but I strongly advise against it), go with legal counsel or anyone you can trust... And a video or audio recording device. Make it clear from the outset that the meeting will only go forward if they agree to let you record the whole thing. If they say no recording, shrug and walk out. that would work if i was required to go to church while living in this house. I AM currently looking for other avenues of escape. There are other things here that keep me in this house, such as help with my medical bills, food, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Currently drafting a letter: "" 24 June 2012 To the Spiritual Council of (fathers church), This letter is notice that I am not longer a member (father) church, effective with the date of this letter. As indicated to you in the accusation brought against me by my father, my membership vow was made under duress, and is thusly rendered null" Im not even sure what to say, considering i am required to attend to keep my residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Also: it appears that all the womens shelters in my area are run by church organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanStoHeli Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not all church organizations are the same - some of them are OK with supporting those of other beliefs, some of them do not require that degree of compliance. Call the shelters. There's also roommate situations that can be quite cheap, you could talk with your boyfriend's parents about paying them some rent, etc. Time to get very serious and very aggressive about getting your backup plan, because that letter is to me a perfectly clear sign that he's finishing off what he needs to do to kick you out. That letter is ridiculously controlling - it shows that he only seeks control over you, thinks he is entitled to a ridiculous degree of control over your choices. I don't think staying is an option any more. IMO, he's setting up to take care of his perceived obligations, then he's kicking you out. I'd move all possessions, especially anything you need, to your boyfriend's house for temporary storage, make sure none of your bank accounts have either of your parents on it. You need out of there, and you need to be ready for what I suspect will come about immediately after the hearing, or after you refuse it - that you'll be out with NOTHING. Look at that letter - he's the hurt party - you dared have sex, you dared falsely claim faith, you dared deconvert - all to claim free room and board (and he does have a bit of a point there... although if he only said you must attend church, didn't say you had to believe and stop having sex, he loses any claim to a breach of contract). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 25, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2012 I don't think staying is an option any more. IMO, he's setting up to take care of his perceived obligations, then he's kicking you out. I'd move all possessions, especially anything you need, to your boyfriend's house for temporary storage, make sure none of your bank accounts have either of your parents on it. You need out of there, and you need to be ready for what I suspect will come about immediately after the hearing, or after you refuse it - that you'll be out with NOTHING. Excellent recommendations! ------------------------------------------------------------ Duckie -- Be Prepared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If you got any outstanding medical bills. Call there billing department and start explaining your situation and saying, "I can't pay." Usually they have some options for someone in that situation. I just recently for various reasons lost my job, and called one place and told them my circumstances, and then just cleared the bill with one phone call. You might have luck like that. Things are going to suck for awhile badly, but I do agree with the rest of the people here, if this group shaming thing fails, in his eye's the next thing he is going to have to do is kick you to the curb. So, get any money you have that is yours out of your bank account. Go to the local DSHS office and explain your situation and see what can be done. I would go for food stamps in your shoes, cause if your so economically stuck you have to live at home, in theory you should qualify for something. And bite the bullet at a women's shelter. Better to fake a church service then live in a extreme dictatorship. If you have your own car even better. But escalation is never good, this is escalation and you got to prepare for its potential limits. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Duckie, I hated seeing that letter from your church and the steps your father is taking with the church leadership to punish you. I figure something like that is coming my way, too, being from the same denomination and all. But I won't allow confrontation to happen on my part...I hope you are able to stand up for yourself, and we are here for support, OK? I would probably try to get in touch with a few different resources that help people escaping the clutches of religion: http://ffrf.org/ - Freedom From Religion Foundation http://recoveringfromreligion.org/ - Recovering From Religion I would see if there are people at those organizations that would have good advice for someone in your position, because you are in danger of being harassed and even thrown out on the street regardless of whether or not you go along with their meetings. I think the bottom line is that you will be leaving your father's house sooner or later, whether through your own volition or through your father kicking you out onto the street. That being the case, I would hope you could make your exit to be on your own terms in whatever way you can. Everyone is right: this is emotional abuse, and they are just waiting for you to break under the pressure and submit to their discipline. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Jus thinking about this is so surreal. I can't believe humans treat each other this way, MUCH LESS A FATHER TO HIS DAUGHTER. I have 2 girls and the thought of pushing them out bc they disagree with my religious (or lack of) beliefs just does not compute. He's a slave to "Christ", that's for sure. So much for "Christian love". I really hope this is being overplayed. They don't understand you have VERY VALID AND SUPPORTABLE REASONS to doubt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 25, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2012 Jus thinking about this is so surreal. I can't believe humans treat each other this way, MUCH LESS A FATHER TO HIS DAUGHTER. I have 2 girls and the thought of pushing them out bc they disagree with my religious (or lack of) beliefs just does not compute. He's a slave to "Christ", that's for sure. So much for "Christian love". Isn't it interesting how we evil heathens are so much more loving toward our believing spouses and children. Like you said, so much for "Christian love" and so much for that "Unconditional Love" they preach about their god. Total BS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Jus thinking about this is so surreal. I can't believe humans treat each other this way, MUCH LESS A FATHER TO HIS DAUGHTER. I have 2 girls and the thought of pushing them out bc they disagree with my religious (or lack of) beliefs just does not compute. He's a slave to "Christ", that's for sure. So much for "Christian love". Isn't it interesting how we evil heathens are so much more loving toward our believing spouses and children. Like you said, so much for "Christian love" and so much for that "Unconditional Love" they preach about their god. Total BS. This is te exception, not the rule though. Most xians don't go this far. That why it's such a shock to me. He needs to grow a pair (of brain cells). This is just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanStoHeli Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 By the way - your school likely has health insurance plans for students that are fairly inexpensive. And realistically - while I think he's a controlling jackass - you are an adult, he has no further obligation to support you financially or with a roof over your head. Your only choices are to submit to anything he says must be done to live there - or to move out. Just make sure you have your stuff together and ready if he decides to kick you out fast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 To everyone who commented: After some serious thought (and stress) over the last couple of days, i have come to this conclusion: This letter was written in a form REQUIRED by the church my father is an ELDER of. It was required of him to submitted it thus, and to write in the format written. I do NOT feel in any personal danger of being kicked out, and in fact, over the last two or three months have felt a significant decrease in the tension and animosity in the household, and i do not attribute this to my father "lying-low" so he can spring one on me, or pull the rug out from under my feet. In regards TO the possibility of being kicked out: I have every faith and confidence in my mother, who is the reason i am still living here while i am in school. She would not let my father kick me out, and would, in fact, leave if he did so, and probably get an apartment with me. I am her only child, and she had a rather fucked up father/daughter relationship, and our relationship, while being a little uncertain right now as i increasingly assert my disbelief, is still strong, loving, and full of communication. While i appreciate all your concern, please remember, you are only seeing a fraction of my life, and that whole picture is hard to share. While i do accept that my father has been abusive and does have control issues, i am NOT afraid of him. My reason for posting this letter was because it hurt me to see, and to know, that he holds these silly rules so close to him. And because it is completely ridiculous that a church is trying to be like a court. It baffles me. But until i posted it up here, i really didnt feel pressured or like i needed to repent. I just felt, even more, that the church is a ridiculous place, especially the ultra conservative one that my parents attend. I must admit i feel a bit badgered here, as everyone is DEMANDING that i see this as intense emotional abuse and that i flee. But, honestly, i really no longer feel like my father has any power over me. True i do admit, right now I feel stuck in this place, but not by any doing of my father. He hasn't even mentioned this letter to me, except for once when he told me that he sent it in. He also told me that probably the only outcome will be the church will rescind my 'right' to partake of communion, I only mention "shunning" because i have seen that happen within this church before, but the members to be 'shunned' were no longer attending. My father has also stated he will not let the pastor's, elder's or member's bully me. So, while yes, i do agree that i HAVE been emotionally abused and hurt by my father, and his religion, i must assert that this letter was NOT intended BY HIM to intimidate me. Nor does it. The church has no more claim or pull or sway or hold over me. I have not decided yet what to do in regards to the meeting with the church elders, other than resigning my membership and declaring myself no longer under their "discipline." I have not decided whether or not to go to the meeting, though if i do i will not be discussing any "sins," since discussing my sexual activities with a bunch of stodgy old men is just creepy to say the least. At the current time my plan is to submit a letter of resignation. So, thank you for all your concern, i know you all mean the very best, and have the very best intentions, and i do appreciate every one of you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Hey Duckie, I don't think it's so much a case of everyone trying to pressure you into seeing your situation as emotional abuse, but more that we're incredibly scared for you. I know I am. I am sick with worry over this. You are right in saying that we are only seeing a fraction of your life. But from the outside looking in on what you have shown us, it looks very, very scary, and we are all worried for you and concerned about you. Part of the reason why some of us are so concerned has to do with our own experiences. In interpreting what you tell us, we are drawing on our own experiences and quite a few here are clearly seeing red flags. Ultimately, though, this is your life. So if there is one thing I could leave you with, it's a principle that I live by: hope for the best, and plan for the worst. Never rely on anyone but yourself. And always have a back-up plan. Love, Pudd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanStoHeli Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Indeed, we only see what you type here - and if your father is saying what you say, it could indeed be that the whole issue here is just him following protocol. I still think being ready for anything is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 26, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2012 In regards TO the possibility of being kicked out: I have every faith and confidence in my mother, who is the reason i am still living here while i am in school. She would not let my father kick me out, and would, in fact, leave if he did so, and probably get an apartment with me. I am her only child, and she had a rather fucked up father/daughter relationship, and our relationship, while being a little uncertain right now as i increasingly assert my disbelief, is still strong, loving, and full of communication. While i do accept that my father has been abusive and does have control issues, i am NOT afraid of him. My father has also stated he will not let the pastor's, elder's or member's bully me. Whew! That's a relief. I live by the same life principle as Pudd: Hope for the best, and plan for the worst. Never rely on anyone but yourself. And always have a back-up plan. Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 I had hoped this all sounded worse than it was in reality- I'm very relieved that appears to be the case! Still think your "elders" are crotchety old douchebags tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 26, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 26, 2012 That is nice to hear, Duckie. It's good to see that you are no longer under their "authority," nor are you subject to their "discipline..." lulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 We <3 you gal. Just take good care of yourself. And please do not ever let anybody put the idea into your head that you are forced to endure anything you don't want to endure. You are free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electech98 Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Sorry for the overreactions, Duckie. I think most everyone here still has fresh memories of the shunning, attempted humiliation or discipline, or harsh confrontations that they experienced (or are still experiencing) with their deconversion. It's natural to be very protective of others that are going through what we have gone through or are currently going through. We hate to see someone like yourself going through something like this, and our feathers get ruffled when we see a letter from the church outlining your dad's complaints against you. Sorry for the feather-ruffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Currently drafting a letter: "" 24 June 2012 To the Spiritual Council of (fathers church), This letter is notice that I am not longer a member (father) church, effective with the date of this letter. As indicated to you in the accusation brought against me by my father, my membership vow was made under duress, and is thusly rendered null" Im not even sure what to say, considering i am required to attend to keep my residence. Hope everything works out for you, Duckie. Glad to hear you aren't going to take any guff from those churchies. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahinprogress Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ultimately, though, this is your life. So if there is one thing I could leave you with, it's a principle that I live by: hope for the best, and plan for the worst. Never rely on anyone but yourself. And always have a back-up plan. Love, Pudd I totally agree! I am currently talking to my boyfriend about when we can get our own place, and there ARE places I can crash if things do start spiraling. Nothing that I have here really is important except my laptop, car, phone. And all those things I own outright and my father cannot keep. Thank you so much for your concern, I really truly appreciate it, and you, for caring, for worrying, and for being here for me when I ned support! Indeed, we only see what you type here - and if your father is saying what you say, it could indeed be that the whole issue here is just him following protocol. I still think being ready for anything is a good idea. I really do think its merely protocol, as my father has been very mellow and non-confrontational for about a month now. I don’t feel like it’s the “calm before the storm” or like I am walking on eggshells like I once did. Maybe It’s just me who has changed, haha. Whew! That's a relief. I live by the same life principle as Pudd: Hope for the best, and plan for the worst. Never rely on anyone but yourself. And always have a back-up plan. Peace! Thank you! <3 I had hoped this all sounded worse than it was in reality- I'm very relieved that appears to be the case! Still think your "elders" are crotchety old douchebags tho. Yeah, I agree. And I wont be discussing any of my “sexual sins” with them. I still haven’t decided what to do/say *sigh* That is nice to hear, Duckie. It's good to see that you are no longer under their "authority," nor are you subject to their "discipline..." lulz Right? It totally just makes me want to laugh and roll my eyes now. It’s such a scare tactic, guilt trip, etc. So silly and petty and childish. Just like religion. We <3 you gal. Just take good care of yourself. And please do not ever let anybody put the idea into your head that you are forced to endure anything you don't want to endure. You are free. Thank you so much! I <3 you too! I appreciate and love you all so much for being here for me while I struggle, and to offer support. I probably never would have seen how my father acts as abuse and changed the way I react to it, had it not been for you guys. But I really no long feel afraid or subjugated by him at all anymore. Like I was saying above, I don’t know if he is mellowing or if I have finally just let go of any hold he has over me, but either way, yes. I am free. I feel free. I feel so much better than I have in years, because I know who *I* am and what *I* want to do, and it doesn’t matter what he thinks. It wont ever again. Sorry for the overreactions, Duckie. I think most everyone here still has fresh memories of the shunning, attempted humiliation or discipline, or harsh confrontations that they experienced (or are still experiencing) with their deconversion. It's natural to be very protective of others that are going through what we have gone through or are currently going through. We hate to see someone like yourself going through something like this, and our feathers get ruffled when we see a letter from the church outlining your dad's complaints against you. Sorry for the feather-ruffling. Thanks! I totally understand where everyone was coming from, it was just like SUPER stressful. I think I really needed that though, because it made me realize I was still relying on OTHERS reactions before I reacted. And it forced me to make my own mind up and have my own opinion. I feel so much better and calmer now. I feel like I’ve finally reached a place where peace is possible. Hope everything works out for you, Duckie. Glad to hear you aren't going to take any guff from those churchies. :-) No more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanStoHeli Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 That sounds great, I'm glad this is really working out for you. I find having the backup plans in place also helps with that peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wings Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Hi Duckie,my heart breaks reading your story but you certainly have a friend here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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