My Father Is Becoming A Pastor

[electech98]

Removed upon request.

Removed upon request.

[Wings]

Hi electech, you've got it right... that's the one.
Would love to connect with you more about it... seems to be unique among groups here re. structure and fundamentalism.
 

[electech98]

 

 

Removed upon request

Haha, that's funny! It's starting to be a smaller and smaller world up in here. It's amazing who you can connect with on this forum.

You're right, it is VERY difficult for the RCUS and CanRC to associate with different churches because of how strictly they view the church. If a church is not the right type of Reformed, there's no way the RCUS would associate with them. I'm surprised the RCUS still has fraternal relations with the Orthodox Presbyterian Church because the OPC ministers can hold different views of creation and take exceptions to some of their own creeds, as opposed to the RCUS (ministers are not allowed to take exceptions to creeds, and the official stance on creation is literal 24-hour 6-day creation).

While an active member in my church, though, I tried what I could to bring our church together with some of the other "Reformed" churches in town through picnics. We got some picnics going for a few years, but we didn't really have any other relation with those churches at any other time throughout the year. Just the mere fact that one of the other churches was credobaptistic and not paedobaptistic was enough to ensure we would never have that pastor preach at our church.

Yes folks, it's that stupid.

[sarahinprogress]

Hey everybody!

Sorry i've been so MIA!

 

I had a meeting with the church elders a couple weeks ago and was basically told: I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I will be shown by GOD that i can not stand on my own, God will knock me down and it will hurt, etc.

 

Then they punished me for my unrepentant heart by tacking away my communion taking privileges. It went fine, i was fine, i got a little bit upset but i dont think it showed. I went to my boyfriend's house right after and he comforted me. All in all it went pretty well.

 

I got into my psych tech program!

It was my first week this week and i'm an exhausted emotional mess, but i love it. Im so excited to get into the nursing field.

 

Side note: you all probably remember when i didnt get into the nursing program and my dad said it was God's judgement....well when i DID get into the Psych Tech program, he said it was because God answered everyone's prayers. LOL

 

 

soooooo, that's all, just wanted to update everyone, and let everyone know im doing more or less ok. =)

[SusanStoHeli]

But....but....but.... weren't they praying for god to hurt you, so you'd come back to him?

[mcdaddy]

douchebaggery at its finest.

 

Congrats!

[TrueFreedom]

Yay! You are going to do great! It will only get better from here.

[GardenerGal]

Congrats!

[Akheia]

What a bunch of dicks! So glad you got through that, and so hoping they think it's a lost cause to harass you and manipulate you further.

 

It's great you're not letting those assholes get you down! Congrats on the nursing school news! That is incredible! You're on your way to freeeeeeeeedommmmmmmmmmmm!

[electech98]

Hi Duckie, thanks for the update! Good to hear about getting into that program - it sucks waiting to hear about something so important, but now you get to move on it!

 

Just so you know, I sent a letter effectively withdrawing my membership from the church, before any of them thought they could use my membership against me in discipline or whatever. Here it is in case you are wondering or may find it helpful:

 

To the Consistory and Spiritual Council of <church>, <city>, CA:

 

I am writing this letter to notify you that I, Jeremy <last name>, with sound mind and body, hereby withdraw from membership in <church>, <city>,

CA as of August 2, 2012. In so doing, I hereby renounce my signing of the Constitution of <church>, performed when I became a member.

<church> (hereafter “<church initials>”) has been my church home for over 10 years, and I am grateful for the opportunities to befriend many

great people during that time. While I was a fully-committed Reformed Christian, <church> provided the right spiritual and intellectual home at a

time in my life where I craved deeper understandings of Christian doctrine in conformance to my belief in the Reformed / Calvinistic view of God

and the Bible. Much of the journey has been a growing experience for me and my family, and I am grateful for the friendships and bonds created

during that time. It is from within this body of people that many of my greater life experiences have happened: meeting my future wife, getting

married, having children, serving as a deacon, and more. I can’t express enough my gratitude at the warmth, joy, and love shown to us by many of

the members of <church> over the years. But sometimes things change with certain people over time due to maturity, growth, self-examination, and

critical observation.

 

After much study and time to reflect, I have come to the conclusion that I am no longer a believer in specific foundational tenets of

fundamentalist Christianity, especially those that are required for continued membership at <church>. I take issue with many doctrines and claims

of literalistic and fundamentalist Christianity, including the statements of the confessions of <church>. Accordingly, I do not agree with the

confessions of <church> as found in the Heidelberg Catechism, The Canons of Dordt, and the Belgic Confession of Faith.

 

This being the case, I therefore withdraw my membership from <church>, effective August 12, 2012. I do not hold to the Constitution of <church>

and I renounce my signature on said Constitution. I also renounce my affiliation from the <denomination> (hereafter “the <denomination initials>”)

denomination.

 

I do not submit to any authority of any pastor, elder, or deacon at <church> or in the <denomination>, or any Classis, Synod, or other church

body contained therein, and I do not consent to any disciplinary action taken on the part of the Consistory or the Spiritual Council of <church>

or any organized body in the <denomination> against me. As a free citizen of this nation, it is fully within my civil rights to withdraw my

membership from any organization I have joined previously, if I no longer adhere to the organizations goals, standards, practices, and/or

confessions. As such, do not attempt to contact me for any purpose relating to discipline, including trying to bring me back into the “fold”.

Please do not contact me, my family, or my friends in any way that would be seen as coercion or harassment; do not attempt to keep my family or

friends from making personal contact with me; and do not make any attempts to get me to reverse my decision. Do not engage in any action that

would besmirch my personal or professional reputation. If you must make an announcement to the congregation regarding my departure, it should be

an announcement of disassociation from <church> and the <denomination>, and not of apostasy.

 

Because of confidentiality problems in the past with certain leadership in the church, let me make clear that this letter and the contents herein

may only be kept on record by the Consistory of <church> and may only be seen by the members of the Consistory. I do not give the Consistory

permission to show this letter or give this letter to anyone outside of the Consistory of <church>. Only the members of the Consistory of

<church> may see this letter, but I do not give those members permission to disclose or disseminate this letter or its contents to anyone outside

of the Consistory of <church>.

 

I thank you for the years of service and friendship afforded through membership at <church>. I wish to maintain as many friendships as possible

(if those friendships are true), so it is with clear discretion and sensitivity that my withdrawal from membership must be undertaken, as

outlined above.

 

Most sincerely,

 

Jeremy <last name>

 

I confirmed its delivery with one of the deacons, and I have not heard from any of the leadership of that church since. The most important thing I wanted to emphasize with them is that they are not the only ones with the control of membership in the church. People can join organizations and become members, and are just as free to withdraw their membership without harassment if they see fit.

 

Good luck with everything!

[Akheia]

Beautifully said, Elec, and it has that note of legality to it that says in neon letters "if you do any of this shit to me, I am so suing your slimy asses."

[♦ ficino ♦]

Good to hear about your acceptance into the psych program, Duckie! Thanks for letting us know how things went. Have a good semester!

[sarahinprogress]

Another quick update: No big news!

I am getting an A in my Psych Tech program as of now, and we are about to start clinicals.

 

My father hasnt really said much about god/religion in the past couple months, except for pulling me aside one sunday and demanding that i pay attention and not spend the whole time on my phone texting/reading articles.

 

 

....i also post stuff on my instagram account @sh_tchristianssay, but he doesnt know that =P

 

My father said he wants me to have discussions with him about the bible study and share with him my concerns about it/what i am having doubts about.

I guess he still hasnt accepted that im not having *doubts* but have completely rejected both god and the bible.

 

He doesn't know that i now consider myself an atheist (albeit an agnostic one), but i have already told him i dontthink the bible is true so i wish he would stop trying to force it, however congenially, down my throat.

 

I changed my work schedule so that i work more on sunday mornings, so i dont go to church every week, but im sure he'll say something about that as well soon.

 

 

Trying not to stir the pot, just staying out of his way, everything is peaceful right now and i am SO HAPPY to be in this program. By this time next year i will be OUT OF HERE!!! yay!

 

 

Edit: also, i dyed my hair red. Just thought you all should know, haha

[Akheia]

I bet you look great with the red hair! And congratz on the good grades. I knew you'd do well. One more year, that's all you have to do.

 

Your dad doesn't want to know your concerns so much as he wants to know how to attack you next. He won't be listening to you except to figure out what arguments he should try next. Ah well. You're reading a lot, it sounds like, and well able to handle anything he tries to throw at you.

[sarahinprogress]

I bet you look great with the red hair! And congratz on the good grades. I knew you'd do well. One more year, that's all you have to do.

 

Your dad doesn't want to know your concerns so much as he wants to know how to attack you next. He won't be listening to you except to figure out what arguments he should try next. Ah well. You're reading a lot, it sounds like, and well able to handle anything he tries to throw at you.

 

Thanks! Im soooo excited to be here. Whenever my boyfriend or I get frustrated we just remind each other: its not forever, one more year.

 

Yeah, my dad is very....bullheaded.

 

I've also come to accept recently that his diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder is very accurate. He once told me that BPD is like the toss off diagnosis, that anyone can be diagnosed with it, and i accepted that, of course, like so much else, blindly. But i've been doing some research on my own about it lately, and all the symptoms is entails are just VERY my father.

 

 

Edit: One thing in particular that really interested me was that with BPD the symptoms get LESS intense with age, which i can very much see with my father, and which he attributes to god.

[sarahinprogress]

Just so you know, I sent a letter effectively withdrawing my membership from the church, before any of them thought they could use my membership against me in discipline or whatever.

 

Oh! thank you! that'll help alot when i move out next year, since i plan on withdrawing my membership then, so that the church cant harass me as i try to start my new life! =)

[Akheia]

I'd suggest using much the same wording as Elec did, too, btw. I love the semi-legal language he used. Those weird old farts tormenting you, the only thing they respect are hard boundaries and scary stuff like lawsuits. Oh my, said George Takei, that's something to think about, isn't it? You bringing a nice fat lawsuit to them the second you're free of your crazy dad.

[sarahinprogress]

I'd suggest using much the same wording as Elec did, too, btw. I love the semi-legal language he used. Those weird old farts tormenting you, the only thing they respect are hard boundaries and scary stuff like lawsuits. Oh my, said George Takei, that's something to think about, isn't it? You bringing a nice fat lawsuit to them the second you're free of your crazy dad.

 

Eh, while i like the idea of filing a lawsuit, i just want to get out and be peaceful. There are people in that church who ARE good, kind people, despite their theological beliefs, and i dont want to take money away from them.

[Akheia]

Aw, okay. But I reserve the right to think about it privately and find it amusing as all hell. You, like a lot of people, seem a lot nicer and sweeter than I am.

[pandora]

Hi Duckie!

 

I just read your whole story and I am so glad everything turned out okay. I am glad that your dad is being *somewhat* reasonable. It is amazing that you are so forgiving and compassionate. Things will turn out great for you if you can just hang in there a little longer! When do you and your bf plan on getting a place? What is he studying?

 

I'm a nurse, so if you ever wanna rant about school or whatever, feel free to contact me! I did nursing after a stent of six years in pharmacy school to get my PharmD. It was a six year program with two years of pre-pharm, three years of classes, and one year of residency. I got kicked out in my senior year much like mcdaddy. I couldn't for the life of me pass the stupid medicinal chemistry class (it didn't help that I thought I was too good to go to class) and got held back two semesters and then kicked out the semester before my residency. It was heartbreaking. I had taken enough credits in religion and philosophy to get a BA in that, so I took it. Needless to say, taking those classes is what made me leave Christianity.

 

My Plan B was nursing school since a BA in religion and philosophy only gets you a job as a waitress. A local community campus that is a subcampus of Indiana University and Purdue University had a program that would give you your BSN in 18 months if you already have a bachelors. I got accepted after retaking anatomy and physiology (apparently the ones I took for Pharmacy school did not count... makes no sense to me since they were much more challenging!). Nursing school was pretty easy compared to pharmacy school, but it still took so much of my time and they still like to make easy things amazingly difficult just to "weed" people out. There are so many group projects and case studies and all that jazz to make sure you have no free time when you are done with clinicals! It sounds like you'll have some credits accounted for when you apply again. I don't know how competitive it is where you are, but even the two-year community colleges around here require nearly a perfect GPA in pre-nursing classes. Maybe you can retake some of them while you are in the psych program to up your GPA. You may discover that you like being a psych tech even more than the prospect of being a bedside nurse in an acute care hospital. I know my favorite clinicals were in psych. I want to work as a psych nurse, but I am inbetween jobs and the "nursing shortage" doesn't exist for nurses with my level of experience (less than two years) in my locale.

 

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!

[KBB]

Hi Duckie!

 

I just read your whole story and I am so glad everything turned out okay. I am glad that your dad is being *somewhat* reasonable. It is amazing that you are so forgiving and compassionate. Things will turn out great for you if you can just hang in there a little longer! When do you and your bf plan on getting a place? What is he studying?

 

I'm a nurse, so if you ever wanna rant about school or whatever, feel free to contact me! I did nursing after a stent of six years in pharmacy school to get my PharmD. It was a six year program with two years of pre-pharm, three years of classes, and one year of residency. I got kicked out in my senior year much like mcdaddy. I couldn't for the life of me pass the stupid medicinal chemistry class (it didn't help that I thought I was too good to go to class) and got held back two semesters and then kicked out the semester before my residency. It was heartbreaking. I had taken enough credits in religion and philosophy to get a BA in that, so I took it. Needless to say, taking those classes is what made me leave Christianity.

 

My Plan B was nursing school since a BA in religion and philosophy only gets you a job as a waitress. A local community campus that is a subcampus of Indiana University and Purdue University had a program that would give you your BSN in 18 months if you already have a bachelors. I got accepted after retaking anatomy and physiology (apparently the ones I took for Pharmacy school did not count... makes no sense to me since they were much more challenging!). Nursing school was pretty easy compared to pharmacy school, but it still took so much of my time and they still like to make easy things amazingly difficult just to "weed" people out. There are so many group projects and case studies and all that jazz to make sure you have no free time when you are done with clinicals! It sounds like you'll have some credits accounted for when you apply again. I don't know how competitive it is where you are, but even the two-year community colleges around here require nearly a perfect GPA in pre-nursing classes. Maybe you can retake some of them while you are in the psych program to up your GPA. You may discover that you like being a psych tech even more than the prospect of being a bedside nurse in an acute care hospital. I know my favorite clinicals were in psych. I want to work as a psych nurse, but I am inbetween jobs and the "nursing shortage" doesn't exist for nurses with my level of experience (less than two years) in my locale.

 

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!

 

Ironic that I just saw this post, as just a couple of hours ago I found out I didn't get into a friggin ADN program. And I have a BS in chemistry and an MS in biology already. And I scored 20 points above the class average on the HESI. Makes no sense. What's funny is nursing instructors made that decision. There is a reason they are instructors making half what they could be making as a clinician- because they were shitty clinicians who would soil their pants if they had to assist in a code, whereas I am damn good at my job in the ER. Sorry to hijack the thread, I'm just not sure how much more rejection I can take./end rant

[pandora]

That sucks. I would encourage you to just keep tryiing to apply. I hear that it is even harder now than when I started, especially if it isn't your first degree. Some of my friends' daughters have had to retake every class (not just prereqs) that they got less than an A in and apply two or three times, repeatedly, with letters to the school describing why'd they be an *excellent* nurse. Stupid academia. They are going to end up with a lot of book smart but clinically worthless nurses. When you do get in, be prepared for some woo to be taught. You will laugh at how they teach "science." It is so dumbed down and simplified, and then they try to teach the value of crap like therapeutic touch. Having had a much more in-depth education in pathophysiology, pharmacology, and therapeutics, I had to try hard not to correct my supposedly "expert" professors in the nursing school. They really had some outdated misinformation and oversimplification in a lot of areas. This is the main reason MDs don't respect nurses. All that said, don't give up! I think they just want you to prove how much you want it, and see that you aren't doing it just for the money and the economy (even though the money isn't as great as people think it is).

 

I want to go for my NP/APN someday, but I don't know if I'd ever be able to afford it. Plus, they require a couple years of bedside experience in order to get accepted. Right now, the only jobs for nurses with less than two years of experience are in nursing homes in my city. I DO NOT want to work in a nursing home. I had enough ethical problems with the organ transplant unit I worked in.

 

Anyway, back on topic... Duckie, sorry to hijack your thread. Please get back to discussing whatever you like. We know how your dad has reacted to your deconversion, but how has your mom taken it?

[electech98]

Just so you know, I sent a letter effectively withdrawing my membership from the church, before any of them thought they could use my membership against me in discipline or whatever.

 

Oh! thank you! that'll help alot when i move out next year, since i plan on withdrawing my membership then, so that the church cant harass me as i try to start my new life! =)

Glad to help at least a little bit. I think church leaders are not used to former members asserting their civil rights, and they need to be reminded that they do not rise above civil law on matters of membership, personal/professional reputation, libel or slander, etc.

[sarahinprogress]

hey guys: sorry I've been so AWOL!! SUPER busy with school. needed to check in today because of some stuff going on with my father that really upset me, which surprised me because I thought I was over it. anyways:

my father came home from work late last night and said he needed to ask me a question, that might upset me, I told him to go ahead and braced myself.

a few months ago he had a conversation with my boyfriend, not sure what exactly it all entailed as my father tends to ramble on when he get going and my boyfriend doesn't really like him so all I got from my dad was "I tried to tell him what I believe" and all I got from my boyfriend was "you're dad sure does ramble incoherently." but part of this conversation had to do with whether or not my father would come to our wedding if we got married, and my boyfriend telling him that there "would be consequences" if he didn't come. Not being a part of my life, his grandchildrens lives etc.

so this is what my father wanted to ask me.

 

he said he wanted to know what the "consequences" of him not coming to the wedding would be, according to ME and not my BF, then tried to say that he might not be able to come if he's in South Dakota( where he will be going, probably before *I* even graduate, at te end of this year, for seminary), and it would be wrong to penalize him for that, implying that there would be the same consequences for NOT BEING ABLE TO COME as there would be for CHOOSING NOT TO COME. which I quickly told him were two completely different things. my father also said that if he doesn't come that it wouldnt be punishing me, but just something "he has to do" because of what he believes, his religious duty. but that he doesn't know "how he'll feel on that day" an so he can't say for sure whether he will come or not but I shouldn't feel punished by his choice because its not about me but about what he HAS TO DO for his faith, for god.

then he called me selfish for "holding on" to the word "punishment" and telling him that he WOULD be punishing me by not coming

 

 

 

like.....

 

 

I should fucking accept what he believes and put aside my beliefs and go to fucking church and live by his fucking rules, but he can't do that FOR ME on the ONE DAY that's supposed to be THE MOST IMPORTANT!?

 

so that's what happened. this made me decide once and for all that while I do want my father to come I DO NOT want him to walk me

down the aisle. I'm not having him hold his attendance over my head and hold my breathe hoping he decides that he'll come, I don't want to give him the fucking option.

 

if he can't fucking tell me if he can go or not, because of his beliefs or because of fucking SCHOOL, then he doesn't GET that choice. it gets taken the fuck away.

[sarahinprogress]

get back to discussing whatever you like. We know how your dad has reacted to your deconversion, but how has your mom taken it?

hey! thanks so much sorry it took so long for me to get back to you! My boyfriend is studying to be in law enforcement, and he eventually, as of now wants to work for the FBI. or go into Law haha.

we are planning on moving in together at the end of this year, and will probably get married next year sometime, although he hasn't proposed yet. My mum is sad about my deconversion sometimes but she's also much more reasonable. she knows I'm an adult and doesn't try to force her beliefs on me, but then she's always NEVER been a zealot like my father, she has a quiet, personal faith. she stood up for me last night with my father, trying to tell him that he should go to my wedding no matter what. she's

likes that. always on my side, even when I'm wrong.